What was your first reaction to the video? What was most surprising to you? Has anyone had a similar experience with health care?
Make an initial post responding to the above questions. Then, respond to at least one post from a classmate. (We're aiming for a rich discussion among the entire class, rather than each of you just responding to my prompt).
My first reaction to the video was that it is silly that we do not ask people what they wish to happen to them if they enter a condition that incapacitates them. Why? We ask all drivers when they get their drivers license if they want to become an organ donor in case of death. If nothing else why not ask to designate someone to make these difficult decisions instead of placing the burden on their entire family. The most surprising thing to me was when one of the doctors said that some patients reached a point where to not have another treatment no matter how bad their conditions and odds was to admit death is near. Is it really that hard to admit you are going to die when you reach that point? Personally I have never had a similar experience with health care so I do not know whether that is the reaction of a few or perhaps the reaction my own family would have in those circumstances.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the patients are necessarily admitting they are dying when they keep accepting treatments despite distant odds (the fact they are in such a situation is all the evidence needed). But to not administer another treatment is to accept that they are indeed going to die. They are not deluding themselves into believing more treatments make them healthier, they simply accept that the treatments are the ONLY chance they have to live.
DeleteTo them, not undergoing another treatment is like giving up on life and signing a death sentence. But as long as there is some small chance, no matter how minuscule it really is, then they believe they are still in the fight.
I think it's a good idea to make sure we know what people's wishes are if they ever get into that position. Unfortunately, even though it is the patient's choice, I believe the family will still want to be involved in the decision, even if the decision has already been made. I think people have a belief that "nothing will happen to me" or "nothing will happen to my family", so admitting they are dying is not an easy thing to say. Especially if the patient has gone through so many therapies and medicines, they might feel defeated.
DeleteAre we suggesting then that the question should be "Is continuing treatments with little chance of success a better question than 'Is it really that hard to admit you are going to die when you reach that point?'"
Deletewhy do you think that people dont ponder that question more
DeleteMy first reaction to the video was that I was very surprised that some of the elderly people did not having living wills written to help their families out during their hard time. I don't have a living will, however I have told my parents that if something crazy would happen to me and I ended up in the hospital on life support that I do not want to be on life support. I also was very surprised in how some people received multiple treatments and they have never gotten better. When I watched the video I almost felt like some of the patients thought that getting treatments and surgeries was going to magically cure them, even though in some cases it does they do get cured, however the odds of that happening are very slim.
ReplyDeleteThis video was really hard for me to watch because I just watched my grandmother pass away during September. She had a living will set up stating that she did not want to be put on life support or anything that would prolong her life and give us(her family) a false sense of hope. She also did not want any of us to see her hooked up to a bunch of machines and have tubes down her throat. If somebody makes a decision to not be put on life support, I don't think that they are just giving up on life and just want to die. I think they have accepted that fact that we all will die someday (there is a 100% chance of that happening to all of us) and they want to be as comfortable and have their family around them when they finally do pass away.
I agree that making the decision not to be put on life support doesn't mean giving up on life and wanting to die. To my mind that is coming to peace with their situation and wanting to make to best of it. I believe that this is a decision to want to live rather than just exist. I don't really see being in a hospital bed hooked up to every type of medical machine imaginable as living. To me this is just existing. At that point nobody is the person that they truly were and any treatment is just futile.
DeleteHaving similar situations happen with two of my grandparents I completely agree with your statement at the end. Its tough having someone in your life pass away and it is also hard to have them suffer in their final stages of life. I could not disagree with someone's decision on how they would want to spend their final stages of their life.
DeleteMy first reaction to the video is surprise at how many people do not make their desires known to their family members. It seems odd to me that there can be individuals who have life threatening diseases who do not take the time to prepare for every situation. I understand not wanting to give up all hope, but it seems ridiculous to not consider the possibility of death or becoming unable to make decisions. I would have imagined that one of the first things that someone would do after being diagnosed with a life threatening disease would be to at the very least sit down with their families and discuss what their wishes are. At the very least I would have thought that they would designate somebody who knows them very well to be their proxy. I was also very surprised at how the patients just kept wanting treatment after treatment. I just don't understand why someone would want treatment when a doctor tells them that it probably won't improve their condition. I suppose that it offers some level of reassurance to the patient that they are doing everything that they can to live.
ReplyDeleteI have not had a situation similar to this in my life. I have only had two close family members die in my lifetime and neither was ever in a position where they could not make a decision for themselves to my knowledge.
I think that the patients choose to keep getting as many treatments as they can because they may be afraid to die. Even if there is a little chance for them to survive they still want to take it. Dying can be such a scary thing for everyone and if there is even the smallest chance that they can live, they will do anything. I also think it would be much smarter for them to make a plan of what they want to happen in case all goes wrong.
DeleteI have never had a family member or friend in such a situation, but I can imagine the motives behind everyone's actions. Few people truly want to die or wish it upon another, and as a doctor, I would hate to have someone under my care pass away.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it is an inevitable fact that we will all die at some point - it is simply a matter of time, and some people just don't have as much as others. I can understand that death is a pretty scary thing to face (humans have traditionally feared the unknown, and I count death as the greatest one of all) but the more we fight against the unstoppable the more it hurts to continue.
The root of the issue is in our culture's perspective of death. There isn't any real attempt to comfort anyone about it all. We instead show it as the ultimate loss, the worst ending, the game over; and because of this people try to delay it as long as possible.
I think that is and excellent way to describe the outlook people have succumb to about death. A very long time ago death was viewed as honorable and better than life and for some people's situation that's true but nobody looks at it like that. They focus on the fact that they are loosing someone that they care for very deeply
DeleteThis was my second exposure to this movie, I had first seen it in a previous philosophy class, death and dying. I can definitely say that after taking that class that this video had greater effect on me because I had a better understanding of what death is. I felt a stronger connection with the patients and families than I did the first time around. This connection is also due in part to my previous experience with death and healthcare facilities. A few years ago my sister was diagnosed with small cell cancer and died about a year and a half later. What these families went through resonates all too well with me. Watching these events transpire on screen brought back memories of my time in the hospital with my sister. What surprised me most about the film and the families was how far they were willing to go to save the lives of their loved ones even with as little hope as there was. I understand their needs to hold on to the ones that they love but it comes to a point where you're not helping the sick your helping yourself because you don't want to lose them and feel the pain and sadness. The family isn't feeling the same pain that the patient is feeling and sometimes it's better to let go than to make them endure any more suffering than they already have.
ReplyDeleteBecause the family isn't going through the same pain as the person actually going through all the treatments that's why I feel like at some age people should make a living will that states what they want to happen if they ever ended up in the hospital. I know that with children it is different and that decision on what to do is totally left up to the parents of the child
DeleteAs I watched this video, I found it heartbreaking to see the stories of patients so close to death grasping at straws for a chance at survival. My grandfather recently passed away this past December, so watching this video brought back memories of seeing him in his hospital room on the last days before his death. He, like many of the patients in this video, was almost unrecognizable after enduring multiple health complications. I think what surprised me most about this video was how some of the families chose to do what they thought was best for their loved ones, while tending to ignore the patient’s wishes. A written will would be necessary in these cases, in order to ensure that the patient received the treatment that he/she wished to receive and specify when these treatments should be cut off. I also would have appreciated seeing more involvement from other facets of patient care, such as nurses and social workers. Not only are they are huge aspect of ensuring the patient’s well-being, they can make a patient’s near-death situation hopefully more bearable for themselves and their families. It’s not as if there needs to be an “all or nothing” choice involved in the hospital’s care for a patient, which I tended to feel at times during the video.
ReplyDeleteI found it surprising too that the families went with what they thought was best even though it was different from what their relative initially wanted. Granted, it is a very difficult decision to make, but I feel that family members should respect each other's thoughts and wishes.
DeleteI think it interesting that you pointed out that we did not see the view points of anyone other than the doctors and family. I wonder if the film would cause us to reflect differently on the experience shared with us if we had listened to nurses and social workers stances.
DeleteI think it's important to keep hope in these kinds of situations. A little hope can go a long way and may even be the difference between life and death. In some cases though the hope is misplaced in miracle treatments and long shots just for the smallest chance of recovery. It may be considered wrong and selfish for the family to go against the individuals wishes of being pulled off of life support but on the other side of the coin it can be considered just as selfish to give up and leave your loved ones behind without even putting up a fight.
DeleteThis video was not too much of a shock to me. I knew that this kind of thing happens in hospitals all the time because the same thing happened to my grandpa this past July. He was having open-heart surgery and we went to visit him the night before. He was laughing and carrying on just like he normally would, the next day the surgery went well, but they had trouble getting his heart to restart. They took him out of surgery and he was stable but only after a matter of hours the only thing that kept him alive from that point was life support. I remember how hard it was for my grandma to finally agree to turn it off. That is what I feel people do. They are always holding on and they never want to let their loved ones go, which is completely understandable. However when you get to the point where the doctors tell you that they are gone and only their body is living because of life support, you have to let them go. This is not only for their sake but for the family's sake as well. The longer they wait to turn the machine off, the harder it gets to do so even when it's for the best. I also think it was surprising how the families were so quick to make a decision about the patients welfare, and sometimes not even taking what the patients want into consideration. I remember the only person we thought of was my grandpa and what he would've wanted instead of what we wanted.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with what you said about the patient's welfare. I couldn't believe it when some of the families would ignore what their loved ones wanted and just did whatever they could to prolong their life. I don't think some of them realized that a peaceful death was easier for their loved ones versus a difficult life where they wouldn't technically even be "living."
DeleteThe video initially grabbed my attention because of the uneasiness of the title. Generally, death is not an appealing topic to talk about, let alone watch a video about. However, since I'm wanting to work in the medical field, death is another part of the health care process, and it doesn't bother me. I also need to become more familiar with personal experiences involving life support and transplants since they will be significant situations in the medical field.
ReplyDeleteWhat's most surprising to me is when family's want to continue the life support for their relative, especially after seeing them in such an unappealing position. As a nursing student, I was taught that one of the most important factors of health care is to make the patient comfortable. In my opinion, being artificially alive with the help of medical machines is very uncomfortable, and is not what being alive is. However, I do understand how difficult the decision is to make for the families. I find it surprising that the families were unsure of what the relative would have wanted in some cases. There ought to be a law instructing people to decide what they wish to do about life support if they ever have to be in that position. The decision left to the family members would be much easier if there was legislation instructing people to decide before a fatal event occurs such as sustaining life.
I have never had an experience with life support or transplants. However, once I am a nurse, I know I will be involved in situations such as those in the video. I also know that as a nurse, I must always respect the families decisions.
I agree I'm always surprised by the family members that want to keep their loved ones on life support above and beyond the point of no return. I can't imagine seeing my loved ones in pain and wanting to keep them alive on my behalf.
DeleteMy first thought on this video is that it is a very upsetting and stressful situation. I have had a few classes where we have discussed dealing with death, but nothing can prepare you for it until you experience it.
ReplyDeleteAs a nurse, I know that this is the last thing I will ever want to see my patients or my patient’s families go through, but I do realize I will be exposed to it. It is going to be difficult to not voice my opinions and just do what’s best for the patient or simply grant the patient’s wishes. It was originally surprising to me that so many families insisted on having their family member remain on life support, even after viewing them in such a terrible state. Then again, I have never been in that position, so I cannot begin to imagine to stress or guilt the family is placed on under those conditions. I am sure that the families have a sense of hope in addition to denial, no matter what decision they make.
When I was considering being a doctor, that was one of the things I would frequently consider, too. I would ask myself, "What would I say and do if I were the doctor of a patient in this position?" It's a terrible decision and a terrible burden to hold. When my great-grandfather was on life support, it was hard watching him struggle and be in pain, but then there were moments that were like little rays of light- he'd be lucid enough to make a joke or squeeze one of our hands. When he did finally decide to sign a DNR, it was those moments that made the difficult situation and the grief that came after it worth it. Just know that, even with the difficult decisions you may have to make as a nurse, you are helping people in a time when they need all the help they can get. :)
DeleteMy first reaction to the video was relatable. My grandmother under went surgery and had a very compromised memory after words from the anesthetic used. Her husband left his blood thinner meds sitting out and she mistook them for her med. She had severe internal bleeding and was placed on life support. She suffered almost continuously until the difficult decision was made. I know that had that decision been left up to her she wouldn't have wanted to be plugged into a machine and tubes down her throat. The most surprising part for me was the amount of people that wanted to be on life support even if it's only to "exist" at best. Being hooked up to machines to help you sustain life I feel like would be very difficult for my family to have to see and go through.
ReplyDeleteAs I was watching the video, my first reaction was that of hopefulness but also sadness. I found it encouraging that these terminally ill people refuse to give on life, a quality that so many of us take for granted. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but many people tend to think they're invincible and that nothing can touch them until a dramatic and life-altering event occurs. This video was a stark reminder that life is fragile and should be lived to the fullest, something that I'm sure the individuals in the video realized. However, it gave me hope because it showed me that, if these individuals can continue to wage war against diseases like terminal cancers and dementia, I can definitely make it through anything in my life.
ReplyDeleteMy second response was that of disappointment. I came to Thomas More as a Biology major with the intent of going to medical school but changed my life goals. Watching this video reminded me of the reason why I wanted to go to med. school- to change lives and help people, even in the face of terrible decisions and seemingly insurmountable odds. This video made me reflect on my life and the people and things I take for granted in it that may be gone in the blink of an eye.
I had very similar reactions as you did. It;s encouraging to see people who are on the brink of death fighting as hard as they can and even being optimistic about such a terrible situation. Can I ask why you are disappointed with the film and are you still planning on going into the medical field?
DeleteMy initial reaction to the video was shock. The video provided an inner look into the lives of patients with debilitating diseases, as well as the physicians working hard to treat them. The treatments given to these patients weren’t necessarily guaranteed to have a success rate. It almost seemed as a way to postpone the inevitable. I never really thought about the inner workings and what all has to go into treating/caring for the terminally ill. The spirits’ of the patients who were coherent, and still trying to seek treatment for their diseases was that of extreme hope. Even with extreme discomfort, the possibility of a longer life was what kept them motivated to overcome. What was most surprising to me was the lengths that the proxies (of some of the patients) were going through in order to keep their significant other alive for as long as possible. Although the current state they were living in may not be “functional”, the thought of having a loved one around longer always prevailed. Also what was surprising was the significance of the decisions the proxies had to make; possible restricted life or death. I haven’t had a similar experience with health care as in the video, I think that since I haven’t experienced this first hand I am not sure if I would react the same way or not. As of now I know I probably not be able to cope with knowing I had to make this life altering decision regarding my loved one. Looking more on the physician’s point-of-view, I can see how the physicians would have such a difficult time conveying to these patients that the treatments may not be effective while also wanting them to have a chance to get healthier. I think they did do the best they could on informing the families the consequences of all of the options.
ReplyDeleteI also haven't had a similar experience as in the video, but I sometimes wonder what I'd do and what my mindset would be if I did. It's hard knowing what you'd do in a situation you've never encountered. I agree that it would be difficult to be a physician or doctor in these types of situations. Personally, that's one of the main reasons I couldn't be in the medical field.
DeleteMy original reaction to the video was compassion. Compassion for the people dying and their families who often have to make a decision of life or death for another person. In some ways I believe that people should try to live as long as they possibly can, but when they are in an unlivable state where they are unconscious most of the time, is that really considered living? The patient is suffering physically and are often unaware of what is happening to them. They are in a state that is totally dependent of others. I was most surprised by how many people chose to continue fighting when the results seemed inevitable, in some situations their fight was just harder and ended sadly. If it were me and my life was so different and seemed unlivable I would give up but I respect others decision to continue fighting. I have experienced a similar situation with my grandma dying. At the age of 83 she was very active and independent. She was extremely healthy and in great shape but one day she fell and had a bad head injury. This caused her to be unconscious from then until two weeks later when she died. She did not want to be put on medications and be restricted to the remainder of her life in a nursing home. She had always been very active and would rather die and active woman than die some years later in a nursing home and dependent on others. Because of her lifestyle my family chose not to put her on life support and let her pass the way she wanted to. This was very eye opening and made me really think about all of the decisions that go into making a decision as important as someone's life.
ReplyDeleteMy first reaction to the video was that the whole process reminded me of how both of my grandparents went. Luckily both were not incoherent at the times of their death and both were able to make their own decisions as they faced death; but, if they were not coherent I could not imagine the decisions that our family would have to make regarding their lives. The most shocking aspect of the video is realizing how far technology has come in order to allow people to live. Knowing the changes in the medical field I know there is a good chance that some day I will be put into this situation; I cannot imagine asking someone whether or not to live who is family or a loved one.
ReplyDeleteMy first reaction to the video was realizing that many people don't consider their own death. Many people don't have wills, even older people. This is also what was most surprising to me. Many people see death as a horrible thing, which is what we're taught to believe. Due to this, many people don't consider death. There's also the belief that chances are you won't die until you've reached an old age, and even then, no one wants to believe that fact.
ReplyDeleteI have never had an experience with health care or any of these issues.
I agree Its odd to think that some people don't ever think about death or the things surrounding it. Death is looked at as an unspoken subject instead of looking at someone's death as a celebration of their life.
DeleteMy first reaction to the video was just memories of how my grandfather passed and how his situation was similar to some of these patients. I could relate to some of the stories and emotions that the families were going through because this is never an easy process to have to deal with. It was amazing to see the fight in some of these patients and how they were able to stay in such high spirits given the circumstances. It was also very interesting to see how far medicine has come and the way these doctors care and comfort the patients. I can't imagine how hard it would be to basically ask someone if they are ready to die or not. The doctors ability to keep the patients alive and somewhat comfortable is remarkable. I don't have much experience with healthcare but watching these stories gave me a better idea on how difficult the process is.
ReplyDeleteMy first reaction to this video was immediate sadness. To make a choice for someone else who is helpless in their situation is a hard thing to do. I know that the families want to make the best decision for loved ones, but there are so many risks that they have to take into consideration when making a decision. There was nothing really surprising to me when I watched the video except for the scene with the daughters trying to make a decision for their mother. To see that the daughters did not agree on what decision to make was definitely an uncomfortable situation to be in, but to see that the mother was able to breathe without the tube was definitely surprising to me. This shows to me that as long as you have hope and faith anything is possible. I have had family members that were in intensive care due to the health problems they've encountered, but I was so young during the time I really didn't have any emotion to the situation.
ReplyDeleteMy first reaction to the video was complete sadness. I was taken back due to the fact I did not realize the severity of the situation concerning life support. Having to choose to keep holding on for a miracle, which does happen, or letting go and dealing with all the "what if's" all seems too hard for anybody. I have not yet, and helpfully not for a very long time, have had to deal with this type of situation and would be left speechless if I was in anyone in the videos shoes. The odd thing to me was the fact that all, I believe all, but if not almost all the patients end up dying in the end leaving me questioning which really is the better option? Do most people pass away anyway? I have to say the saddest part for me was the husband who kept trying and each time he thought he could he got pushed back down and ended up in the hospital, he had a very hard time dealing with the fact he was dying. This video was very sad but gave me good but depressing insight on the difficult situation of life support.
ReplyDeleteThis video left a lot of questions for me. Of course, watching it was difficult and sad but also informative. End of life treatment seems to be a very touchy subject. I feel that when addressing this issue one should be sympathetic to all persons involved but also never forget one's moral duty to preserve life to the best of their ability. It is important to fight to save lives of people within reasonable means. Sometimes taking excessive measures is not helpful to save the life of another and need not be taken, but sometimes ensuring someone's right to life may mean enduring some amount of pain for either them or the family or both.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to addressing these and similar issues to gain a better understanding of them.
This is my second exposure to this video and things of the subject matter since I was in death and dying last semester. I find it shocking still though that some of these people don't have things set up though to help their family members out during tough times and decisions like that. My family discusses things like that openly and I guess its just looking at it from a different perspective. I haven't dealt with close family member dying since I was little, but this video still brings up some feelings that make me want to appreciate my loved ones more and not be afraid or awkward to talk about things like death with them.
ReplyDeletei have saw this video 3 times when it first aired i was horrified that people dont have people to aid them in trying times. i dont know how to react to these such things since my family and i try to live in the current and not think about the future . this video makes me wonder what is there in my future and that i might want to start thinking about these things
ReplyDelete